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Fiat 500 ev erfarenheter
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erhard
intresserad


Registreringsdatum: 22 juni 2015
Inlägg: 17
Ort: hungary budapest

InläggPostat: 2020-03-17 23:45:18    Rubrik: Svara med citat

Cinquecento skrev:
Yes, I'm charging them one by one (or, rather 16 by 16) using lab power supply now (since I have no onboard charger, it is broken). It takes long time, but I can do it while waiting for new charger to arrive from China.

It has not been possible to drive the car, because when ignition is switched on, it stops with engine light coming on after a short time. But now when I have charged almost all cells (and I have learned how to read data from BMS ), I will try to start it again and see what error codes I get.

Yes, I guess it would be possible to replace individual cells. But how to weld the new cells into a 16-cell block? I don't think I could do this at home, you need a spot welder I guess? Was it the company who you linked in your post before that helped you to do the welding?
Or maybe it is possible to do at home, I just found this video: https://youtu.be/o1NFbchHeM8 Very Happy



It is very interesant video. I didn't dare to welding.
Yes, the expert of company has welding. Can you give me internet link of the chinese charger ?
The BMS controls the charger on CAN BUS. New charger can be controlled by BMS? I think better way to charging about 108-110V DC via the charger contact. You can see the voltage of cell on program. Program runs twice. You see all (96)voltages of cells. STOP charging, when one voltage cell above 3.65V. The BMS discharges all high voltage cells. It bring down to average. It is a sorter way to charging the battery. The BMS get all information for cells and energie.
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Cinquecento
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Registreringsdatum: 16 augusti 2013
Inlägg: 19
Ort: Hudiksvall

InläggPostat: 2020-03-18 12:00:50    Rubrik: Svara med citat

Ok, welding will be the challenge if I would need to rebuild a cell block. I'm not sure if there are any companies where I live that could do it.

I have ordered this charger: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32852367155.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.3.35b06068q5B4en

I choose the HK-H-H132-16 model with CAN bus control.
Now it's in shipping by UPS, so I guess it will arrive within a few weeks.
Before placing order, I had mail discussion with their sales staff who were very helpful. They sent me CAN bus protocol which seems identical to the protocol of the old charger, so I hope it will work. I will have to check and watch carefully during the first charging sessions.
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Henke2
Elbilsguru


Registreringsdatum: 21 oktober 2013
Inlägg: 3271
Ort: Ljungby

InläggPostat: 2020-03-18 12:59:27    Rubrik: Svara med citat

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwyQohkELEU
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TESLA Model ≡
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erhard
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Registreringsdatum: 22 juni 2015
Inlägg: 17
Ort: hungary budapest

InläggPostat: 2020-03-18 20:35:14    Rubrik: Svara med citat

I found this web site in 2015. http://www.evassemble.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=3&zenid=nm3sbamnrhelfth6ni3mc13rb2

I was lucky I could get one from ecarsweden.

When I think about new battery I would choose this or like this https://shop.gwl.eu/LiFePO4-small-cells/LiFePO4-High-Power-Cell-3-2V-20Ah-Alu-case-CE.html?cur=1
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Cinquecento
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Registreringsdatum: 16 augusti 2013
Inlägg: 19
Ort: Hudiksvall

InläggPostat: 2020-03-19 17:50:32    Rubrik: Svara med citat

Here's a screenshot as concept demonstrator of my battery monitor. It looks quite similar to Erhards PC software, but it's based on a small web-server running on Wemos D1 Mini board so it can be accessed through local WiFi network, with web browser on a tablet/phone to display data: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1JjWLfJL9ZkUUIDa3216hEzSswmgT_Den

Data is read from Elithion BMS with activated "RS-232 Dump" regularly at 1s intervals.

Currently it's in concept phase, needs some more work on hard- and software to make it work properly.
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erhard
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Registreringsdatum: 22 juni 2015
Inlägg: 17
Ort: hungary budapest

InläggPostat: 2020-03-19 19:10:45    Rubrik: Svara med citat

Good idea!
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erhard
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Registreringsdatum: 22 juni 2015
Inlägg: 17
Ort: hungary budapest

InläggPostat: 2020-03-20 20:02:37    Rubrik: Svara med citat

Hi Everybody!

I really need a DMC calibrator!

https://drive.google.com/open?id=16t5-1bpaWgvs9CivIvo86J138JgoH-1c

The DMC Sigmadrive have a fault.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1M67Ohx8a4KO3tB0m3b2s1p6kPwGIPBU0
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Cinquecento
intresserad


Registreringsdatum: 16 augusti 2013
Inlägg: 19
Ort: Hudiksvall

InläggPostat: 2020-04-13 09:14:17    Rubrik: Svara med citat

Hi! Some progress: new charger arrived and is installed in the car. It's the HK-H-H132-16 model with CAN bus control. It worked straight out of the box, luckily the CAN bus protocol is compatible with the EV-Adapt car system. It's less than half the size compared to the original charger, so I had to make some custom fittings to mount it.






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Cinquecento
intresserad


Registreringsdatum: 16 augusti 2013
Inlägg: 19
Ort: Hudiksvall

InläggPostat: 2020-04-13 09:25:12    Rubrik: Svara med citat

Less good news: It seems (at least) one cell block in the main battery pack is damaged Sad
When charging, the voltage of this cell block increases very fast, up to max limit (>3.70V) in a few minutes. Then the BMS switches off charging, and balancing load is activated, then voltage on this cell block drops, the charging starts over and process repeats.
Well, this explains why the car stopped working!
So, next issue: how to replace it, and with what? It would be nice to find a used battery pack to take spare parts from.
Or if K2 26650EV cells can be purchased somewhere, but then 16 cells needs to be welded into a cell block. I have seen videos where people have done it using home-built spot welders, but it seems a little challenging...


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erhard
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Registreringsdatum: 22 juni 2015
Inlägg: 17
Ort: hungary budapest

InläggPostat: 2020-04-13 13:13:27    Rubrik: Svara med citat

You need to look to how many the temperature of cells in one of 16 cells. The temperature of wrong cells are higher then temperature of good cells. May be you need replace one cell only. My cell of car's battery was replaced by eService company in Hungary. One cell was replaced from 16 cells.
If I were you , I think first shall I quest the alelion.com .
To second https://www.facebook.com/e.service.solymar/ (How many weight does the wrong cell/bank?)[/img]
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Cinquecento
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Registreringsdatum: 16 augusti 2013
Inlägg: 19
Ort: Hudiksvall

InläggPostat: 2020-04-13 14:06:06    Rubrik: Svara med citat

Ok, to check temperature of individual cells is a good idea, I will try it! With thermographic camera it should be easy to identify cell with higher temperature. I only know one block is bad now, I have removed it from the battery pack so I can test it on bench.
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klikhier
Passiv


Registreringsdatum: 05 juni 2020
Inlägg: 3
Ort: Haarlem, The Netherlands

InläggPostat: 2020-06-05 23:01:51    Rubrik: Complete pack change Svara med citat

Hi everyone, sorry to hijack this thread, but I ran into a evcarsweden FIAT 500 and the owner asked me if it was possible to change the pack. So I was thinking of changing it into 4 Tesla Modules (21kWh) with EMUS BMS (that we normally use in our workshop) and replace the charger as well.

The million dollar question I have though... will the car still work when I remove the Elithion managed pack? I was hoping just to loose the battery indication on the dash and still be able to drive the car Smile

Or... is the Elithion system (and its messages) somehow integrated in the onboard ECU's and required for driving?

Hope you can help me out, many thanks in advance!!!
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dontommazo
Elektrisk


Registreringsdatum: 12 oktober 2009
Inlägg: 262
Ort: Baerum

InläggPostat: 2020-06-06 16:41:41    Rubrik: Svara med citat

Hi klikhier,

Sorry I can't answer your question. But why not use the original Elithion BMS that is already there? There should be more than enough cell group channels available, and cell voltage limits etc can be reconfigured to fit Tesla's NCA chemistry.

I just have to ask out of curiosity, are you planning to make the new Tesla based pack liquid cooled? Or do you think it would be sufficient to rely on passive air cooling?

There will not be any fast charging I assume, and the EV-Adapt Fiat 500 has a quite low power motor so battery heat losses should be small. But the liquid thermal management could be very useful to heat up the pack during winter.

Cheers,
Tomas
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klikhier
Passiv


Registreringsdatum: 05 juni 2020
Inlägg: 3
Ort: Haarlem, The Netherlands

InläggPostat: 2020-06-06 22:56:20    Rubrik: Svara med citat

Thanks Tomas, cooling won't be necessary for such a light load, although it won't be hard to add cooling (or heating).

We're using Emus for all our projects, so we'd rather stick to that Smile Keeping the Elithion BMS is more of a fall back scenario.
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Cinquecento
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Registreringsdatum: 16 augusti 2013
Inlägg: 19
Ort: Hudiksvall

InläggPostat: 2020-06-27 10:59:17    Rubrik: Svara med citat

I haven't yet managed to figure out how the ECU reacts on messages from the Elithion BMS. But I think it relies on some CAN messages to enable the car to start. The Elithion BMS'es in the Evadapt Fiat are configured to use two CAN bus ID's, 210 (main battery) and 220 (aux battery) -see also https://www.elithion.com/lithiumate/php/controller_can_specs.php

My car currently won't start, and I suspect it's due to that my main battery has SOH=0. But it could be some other reason, I'm not sure yet. When switching ignition on, it seems ok but then when I push accelerator pedal nothing happens and engine light comes on.

I haven't had time lately to work on it, maybe it would be possible to send fake readings on CAN bus to just see how the ECU reacts (just to see if it would start when SOH is higher than some threshold level maybe)

Sounds really cool to use Tesla batteries, please keep us posted about progress! My battery pack is not so healthy so I suspect I will need to replace it somehow, at least partly.
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klikhier
Passiv


Registreringsdatum: 05 juni 2020
Inlägg: 3
Ort: Haarlem, The Netherlands

InläggPostat: 2020-06-28 16:11:00    Rubrik: Svara med citat

Unfortunately the car is not my own, so I can't do some trail-and-error work on CAN bus stuff in my spare hours. Have to wait until the owner of the car can do some time without so that we can move on forward with this project. I've seen how 5 Tesla battery modules could fit, so that's 26kWh and a small car like this the modules don't have to be cooled, so that makes the replacement actually quite easy.
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CalleT
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Registreringsdatum: 28 juli 2020
Inlägg: 1
Ort: LULEÅ

InläggPostat: 2020-07-28 09:19:04    Rubrik: Fiat500 EVAdapt Prototyp Svara med citat

Har en ännu mer udda Fiat. Den har inte samma batterisystem som verkar vara det vanliga. Mitt batteri heter TK500 och är uppbyggt av 12voltsmoduler. BMS:en kom från AliLion. Blev till slut less på detta så nu håller jag på att byta ut detta till s-BMS från Lithium Balance. Kvarstår gör att integrera denna med laddare och ECU. Tyvärr har jag inte kommit så långt med detta då jag saknar information om CAN-kommunikationen.
Om det är någon som kan bidra med detta vore jag tacksam.
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